What’s something interesting that has been happening in your life?
Lately, I’ve just been thinking more about freedom and what freedom means to a career person. I’ve also been thinking about how I can get better at the things I like to do. I like to play golf a lot on Saturday mornings, and I’m getting worse instead of better. I used to be much better when I was even busier. I’ve been thinking how to integrate my values into some sort of freedom, and how to quiet some mind noise so that I can focus on things that are important to me and still be effective at work.
How did you get into golf?
25 years ago, I was working with Bayer, and I had a friend who started playing golf. We just started with, “Let’s see how we can do it.” It ended up being something that I really loved. I got what they call the “golf bite” for a long while, until now. I got married, had my children, and continued playing. Now I play for relaxation, but there’s still that performer in me. The thing about golf is that there’s no bad-looking golf course-every course has its beauty. Golf is actually a game against yourself, and I want to get back to being a good handicap, and to freedom and work-life integration.
What do you mean?
Work-life balance is probably a myth. Integration is where you can use your up-hours to do your work with a lot of focus, but still be present for yourself, family, and your interests. My biggest priority is my family, especially my children, and sometimes I question whether I’m giving that space enough time.
Is that a lesson you learned too late?
I have no guilt about cooking or being a mom like my mom was to me. I have a daily call with my daughter who’s turning 21, and I have two sons. I just want to be able to be present. In the beginning, I used to want to be present at every event at school; I want to have more quality time with the children. That’s the balance I’m really seeking: when he’s sitting doing his homework, I’m around, not necessarily helping with the homework, but being present, my phone tucked away.
I’ve been thinking about whether, in work-life integration, the increase in activities is healthy as you grow older or if it’s unhealthy. I love work, and I doubt that I’ll stop working, but I’ll go more towards things that are enjoyable for me alongside my values. Work-life integration is necessary for a working woman. You cannot say, ‘8 to 5 I’ll work, 5 to 6 I’ll be a mom, 7 onwards I’ll be a wife.” You have to integrate during the day. I really believe in the universal law of cause-and-effect: what you put in is what you get out.
It seems you’re doing more by doing less?
Yes, because in the working context, you sort of think, “I need to do a lot more planting to get more fruit,” but you can do clever planting and water the plant. The plant here is the people who work with me; I mentor them so the output is greater than what I can do on my own.
What about motherhood caught you completely off guard?
How vulnerable it makes you feel, and how you can’t apply the same standard of your own life to your children. You have to look at them with empathy and treat them as individuals. The amount of love you have for children is unbelievable; it’s like wearing your heart on your sleeve. I was also surprised that children grow and thrive in different directions, and you can’t take full credit for that. It’s not because I was such a good mother or monitored what they were doing daily that they turned out responsible, or because I was absent and therefore they didn’t do well. Children come into this world through me, and they emulate my behaviour more than what I say. I am also surprised I got three: a firstborn girl and two boys! [chuckles]
What did you not expect? Growing up, I thought it was very hard to have sons, and then I had two [chuckles]. I feel I’ve had so much favour.
Is there a habit you fear your children learning from you? That’s deep, and I am quite worried they will become workaholics. That perfectionist mentality that I have, I picked it up from my mom. I also hope my daughter remembers to put herself first, because I’ve struggled to do that. I am often concerned about my effect on other people, how work is going, how I’m performing, and how people are feeling. Later on, I think, “How has that affected me?”
For example, when I worked as Group CEO at Standard Media Group, it was a very difficult time. I worried so much for the employees and fought for their cause, but I forgot that observing suffering and dealing with arrests while running a media house was impacting me heavily. You still live with that.
What have you missed because of work?
Nothing major. I’ve travelled more. I’ve missed the flexibility of time, like 10am parents’ tea. But those aren’t regrettable misses. The regrettable misses are being away when an important event happens for my children. I’ve missed connections with the extended family that could have been valuable. But I’ve gained a lot more: perspective and human interaction with people from many different backgrounds that I never would have had at home. I have a virtue of being generous with my time and advice. I do community service, and as a Palm House trustee, over the last 24 years, we’ve educated about 1,000 children, and I live for those mentoring days.
As a high achiever, which role has demanded the most from you-motherhood, CEO, or wife?
Personal growth and being CEO, especially during turnarounds. Being CEO demands a lot because you have to be neutral, fair, and lead with intention.
If you look at the spheres of life-family, finances, health, work, social, recreation, reinvention, spirituality-I’ve spent so much time on work and personal development to fulfil work and motherhood, but less time growing my spirituality and my health and well-being. Even though I speak about integration, I would feel guilty going to the gym at 10am because of my strong belief that you need to honour your employer and give your time. Integration is a hard thing.
What’s the weirdest piece of advice you’ve given yourself?
To go and work abroad while having children and a husband.I convinced them to go with me, to Zambia, Botswana, and South Africa. It was weird because of the reaction from extended family: “You’re going, and what’s your husband going to be doing?” I said, “We’ll make it work for all of us.” I decided I was going to experience my career to its fullest, even if it meant going abroad. Also, leaving a job without another job lined up, like leaving Standard Media, was unusual for my age group, but I had the assurance that what I’ve learned through the years would stand me in good stead. Even now I am mobile.
Usually it’s the opposite, where the man uproots the family. How was that for your husband?
Because of who he is and he met me when I was already a General Manager, and I always expressed how I wanted to achieve a lot, so perhaps he knew what was coming [chuckles]. He has been very supportive and non-frictional; he would never say “Don’t do that.” I come from a generation of very strong women. My mother is strong, and my grandmother was a society leader. I’m just a fruit from a strong tree. I believe you can take space as a woman, have a family, and be a good mom and daughter, and see my family life as separate from my work, and that’s tough for the marriage.
Has your ambition ever tested your marriage?
Yes, because of how visible some of my roles have been. If I went to public spaces working with the media, males would approach me, or I’d be mentioned in spaces by other men to my husband. How does that make him feel? It definitely requires empathy to recognise how that feels. Men have a big role to play, especially as fathers, so when leading men at work, you lead them with wisdom and respect rather than being high-handed, because men don’t respond well to orders.
What’s one rule you deliberately break in your life?
None! I am such a rule follower; I’m a policeman’s daughter [chuckles]. Perhaps the one habit I break is skipping the gym or the walk. But regarding societal notions, like moving across countries for my career, I just knew I could pursue what I wanted. I have five strong core virtues: Character building: Building a non-injurious character (courteous, respectful, merciful, forgiving). Generosity: Sharing knowledge, empathy, and feeling for people. Honesty: Dealing straight without using truth as a harmful weapon. Constancy of effort through hard work and non-laziness. Moderation: Being moderate and non-excessive, which is why I’m shy about media interviews, and I won’t overdo things. I don’t believe in excesses.
What does ‘me time’ look like for you?
I love a good spa time, a good massage, and a good laugh. If I were to choose another career, I would do executive comedy! I love watching comedy to relax, reading comedy books, playing golf, reading a nice book, and having quiet time. With my friends, we just laugh at the awkwardness of life. On Sunday afternoons, I like to sleep and recover. I also belong to a golf group called “The Eight Ball” with other CEOs on Saturday mornings.
Do you consider yourself competitive?
I am a very poor loser! If there’s a competition, I want to win. That’s why I don’t watch football; I get too invested; you have to take sides. I support my family members’ team, so that means I support Manchester United [chuckles].
Which part of your personality do people underestimate the most?
My influence. And I love being underestimated. People underestimate my ability to influence and take my participation as neutral until something happens. I also love being powerful. When I worked in South Africa, people underestimated the depth of my preparation. They would address the white male colleague reporting to me, thinking he was the boss, while I calmly directed the exact clauses we needed to change in the contract. Being underestimated works to my advantage.
What book do you think everyone should read?
I read a book a week. For young people, Who Moved My Cheese? [by Dr Spencer Johnson] is great for managing change. Right now, I’m reading The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins, The Untethered Soul [by Michael Alan Singer], and The No. 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency [by Alexander McCall Smith]. Reading shows you that nothing you experience is unique, and that’s so freeing.
What is the superpower most women have that they underestimate?
Intuition. That gut feeling when something isn’t sitting right with you, and the way to deal with that is just to make the decision the next day. And also, the ability to multitask without dropping the ball.
What is a small pleasure you fiercely protect?
My cheesecake with a cherry on top! Should I order one now haha! I also have a fear that I am being watched [chuckles]. And I have this constant thought of going away for eight weeks somewhere quiet without my phone, where no one can find me. And that thought is becoming louder as I grow older.
What’s your idea of a perfect weekend?
Saturday morning golf, relaxing with friends in the afternoon; Sunday morning church, a massage or nap in the afternoon; Friday evening reading a book with my son with no phones around.
What do you think people need to hear right now?
In this season, remember that we are resilient. Be strong like water: water is clean, life-giving, but it also cuts its own path and never gives up. Be as strong as water, keep hope alive, and know that tough times will pass.